Hi everyone, how are you?
So I'm almost giving up on playing Sims 3. My game is giving me the code 12 error very easily, I've been doing some research and doing some tests and discovered some interesting things.
The code 12 error is related to RAM, on my tests is more likely to occur after the game reaches over 2.8 GB of RAM usage when running. If the game has more than 3.1 GB of RAM, it is almost certain that when saving, the code 12 error will appear.
In my tests I saw that this error has no connection with the save option. The option to save, save and exit or save as, regardless of these options, if the game has more than 2.8GB of RAM being used, it is likely to give the error.
Once the error occurs, it is almost impossible to reverse, deleting the .bad folder has no effect in my tests, even if I reduce RAM usage to below 2.8 GB, the error will still appear, restart everything with the mastercontroller also had no effect.
I followed the tutorial link very carefully (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1131162350), the downloads of the fixes made my game much slower. The changes in CPU usage, making the game recognize the video card also did not have any significant effect.
Those changes to 4gbPatch or changing the game's RAM usage to 4gb don't make much sense, because if the game uses more RAM the error can happen more easily. Limiting RAM usage also doesn't work, because even though the option is MemoryUsageLimit = 20000000, it doesn't limit RAM usage,
My theory is that the definitive solution for code 12 once and for all is if the game really were limited to using less than 2.8 GB of RAM when running.
I just want to open up for a discussion because I love this game, and I'm trying to get back to playing it, but in less than 10 minutes of playing, when I try to save the code 12 error is almost a guarantee. I've already tried several of the famous fixes and none of them work. I already tried to make a new save and everything
Game Performance Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
General-Errors-FAQ#Error-12
is known since the game out and the max RAM usage is 4 GB since a long time, it came wit an EA patch, but while playing, it will crash mostly when reaching max 3.5, when it becomes critical.
It is a 32 bit game, so it cannot use more RAM no matter what we do. At least keeping an eye on RAm usage with Taskmaster.
I can play for hours with no crashes and save very often to nit loose much progress, if a crash happens. I personally use a RAM cleaner carefully in-between.
Also see this guide
TIPS-FOR-BETTER-GAME-PERFORMANCE
is known since the game out and the max RAM usage is 4 GB since a long time, it came wit an EA patch, but while playing, it will crash mostly when reaching max 3.5, when it becomes critical.
It is a 32 bit game, so it cannot use more RAM no matter what we do. At least keeping an eye on RAm usage with Taskmaster.
I can play for hours with no crashes and save very often to nit loose much progress, if a crash happens. I personally use a RAM cleaner carefully in-between.
Also see this guide
TIPS-FOR-BETTER-GAME-PERFORMANCE
Claudy 
Bookworm, Cat Person, Computer Whiz, Couch Potato, Eco-Friendly, Friendly, Frugal, Genius, Nurturing, Social butterfly, Supernatural fan, Virtuoso in the past, Workaholic, Brooding, No Sense of Humor
Bookworm, Cat Person, Computer Whiz, Couch Potato, Eco-Friendly, Friendly, Frugal, Genius, Nurturing, Social butterfly, Supernatural fan, Virtuoso in the past, Workaholic, Brooding, No Sense of Humor Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
Yes, I know that very well, despite this patch coming to "help" the game ended up hindering it much more, it destabilized a mechanic that they implemented in the act of saving. Unfortunately, there is nothing in this link (General-Errors-FAQ#Error-12) that adds anything useful for possible adequate prevention.
Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
What world are you playing?
How many Sims do you have? Population?
What are your Computer specs? Graphic card?
How many Sims do you have? Population?
What are your Computer specs? Graphic card?
Claudy Bookworm, Cat Person, Computer Whiz, Couch Potato, Eco-Friendly, Friendly, Frugal, Genius, Nurturing, Social butterfly, Supernatural fan, Virtuoso in the past, Workaholic, Brooding, No Sense of Humor
Bookworm, Cat Person, Computer Whiz, Couch Potato, Eco-Friendly, Friendly, Frugal, Genius, Nurturing, Social butterfly, Supernatural fan, Virtuoso in the past, Workaholic, Brooding, No Sense of Humor Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
I'm playing on Bridgeport, standard EA. My save file is new, as I was trying several solutions.
Sims in total: 191
Game in rotational style, more or less 5 family groups, none with more than 8 sims.
My computer is an Inspirion 15 7000 gaming, with a 2.80 GHz i7 processor, 32GB of RAM, Intel(R) HD Graphics 63 video card and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with SSD where the game is currently installed. The aspects of my computer are not that relevant, as it is a 2017 computer, perfectly capable of running the game at maximum settings.
Sims in total: 191
Game in rotational style, more or less 5 family groups, none with more than 8 sims.
My computer is an Inspirion 15 7000 gaming, with a 2.80 GHz i7 processor, 32GB of RAM, Intel(R) HD Graphics 63 video card and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with SSD where the game is currently installed. The aspects of my computer are not that relevant, as it is a 2017 computer, perfectly capable of running the game at maximum settings.
-
CardinalSims
- Reactions:
- Posts: 570
- Joined: May 12th, 2021, 3:12 am
Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
Large Address Aware allows an application to use up to 4GB, instead of its original limit of 2GB. Regardless of the memory issues the game still has, that patch was still technically an improvement. I don't think hitting the 2GB limit would have fared any better.
Those of us who play the game often adhere to some pretty strict save management to prevent the game from even needing that much RAM in a single play session.
While it's definitely a huge flaw with the game, hitting the RAM cap in 10 minutes also sounds like a symptom of a bigger problem. Too much CC, too many sims, worlds that aren't optimized for gameplay, or system specs that aren't keeping up with the games demands- all things which, even if Error 12 didn't exist, this game is not optimized to handle. The silver lining I guess is that the error brings it to your attention instead of letting you get complacent.
It's also worth noting that even very popular guides are full of misinformation and outdated info, many of them are behind the waves of people using incompatible mods that pass through here. If your game performance got worse after following advice in a guide, that sounds like something went seriously wrong. Nobody has the breadth of all knowledge about this game, especially not those whose content is mostly in circulation because of search engine clicks rather than accuracy.
Perhaps time to start with a fresh install of the game, get the graphics card recognised, no custom content, and start performance benchmarking from there?
Adding on for the reply that appeared while I was rambling: Bridgeport is probably infamous for being the least stable EA world and almost 200 sims is far too many for the engine itself- let alone if they're all walking around with HD default skins and CC hairs and such. And specs are always relevant for a game that is unoptimized as TS3.
From the integrated card, I assume this is a laptop also? I sympathise with the laptop life, as someone who melted the fan cover off three of them from playing this game on them, but I could never go back to it. There is simply not a gaming laptop in the world that can haul this specific game in the long run.
I digress, but I suppose 5 years of playing on the setup and gameplay precautions I have now with zero issues makes me passionate about the assertion that the game is unsalvageable- which comes up here relatively often.
Those of us who play the game often adhere to some pretty strict save management to prevent the game from even needing that much RAM in a single play session.
While it's definitely a huge flaw with the game, hitting the RAM cap in 10 minutes also sounds like a symptom of a bigger problem. Too much CC, too many sims, worlds that aren't optimized for gameplay, or system specs that aren't keeping up with the games demands- all things which, even if Error 12 didn't exist, this game is not optimized to handle. The silver lining I guess is that the error brings it to your attention instead of letting you get complacent.
It's also worth noting that even very popular guides are full of misinformation and outdated info, many of them are behind the waves of people using incompatible mods that pass through here. If your game performance got worse after following advice in a guide, that sounds like something went seriously wrong. Nobody has the breadth of all knowledge about this game, especially not those whose content is mostly in circulation because of search engine clicks rather than accuracy.
Perhaps time to start with a fresh install of the game, get the graphics card recognised, no custom content, and start performance benchmarking from there?
Adding on for the reply that appeared while I was rambling: Bridgeport is probably infamous for being the least stable EA world and almost 200 sims is far too many for the engine itself- let alone if they're all walking around with HD default skins and CC hairs and such. And specs are always relevant for a game that is unoptimized as TS3.
From the integrated card, I assume this is a laptop also? I sympathise with the laptop life, as someone who melted the fan cover off three of them from playing this game on them, but I could never go back to it. There is simply not a gaming laptop in the world that can haul this specific game in the long run.
I digress, but I suppose 5 years of playing on the setup and gameplay precautions I have now with zero issues makes me passionate about the assertion that the game is unsalvageable- which comes up here relatively often.
-
igazor
- Organizer
- Reactions:
- Posts: 17148
- Joined: April 8th, 2013, 6:00 pm
- Location: Everyone should strive to find their inner platypus.
Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
These guides on Steam do have some useful information, but they also have much that is sketchy (not as helpful) or unnecessary and some things that are just plain incorrect. I'm sorry, but we really don't know what to say to players who come to us and tell us that our mods are broken or incompatible (with what?) because they read it on a Steam guide like that one.
The 4GB patch has not been relevant since before Patch 1.17, when the game became Large Address Aware. That was in 2010, for heaven's sake. And the 20000 RAM usage trick was never effective, what it does is change the game's maximum script heap size from 20 GB where EA put it on purpose to 40 GB or some other value. It always was an urban legend of sorts and it should be undone if it was attempted.
The guide also advises using Simler90's Core Mod, which is not compatible with NRaas mods and renders the game unsupportable by us, as well as the Smoothness Patch 2.x with no clear mention that its MC package component is totally broken. I pretty much stopped reading after that section.
We all have our slightly different breaking points when it comes to hitting the 32-bit imposed RAM barrier, but 2.8 GB of usage during gameplay seems pretty low. I can run up through about 3.5 GB before being in the danger zone, for example, others seem to run into trouble around 3.3 GB or so. What happens is that the save process itself spikes the RAM usage up and down, and just one split-millisecond spike above 3.7 GB, which definitely the hard upper limit for everyone, will cause the game to Error12 or otherwise lose its mind.
The game should work better than you describe on your hardware set. If the RAM usage is really spiking up that high from 2.8 to 3.7 or so just by virtue of trying to save, then that is not normal. How well (or poorly) does it behave short-term on a clean no content or mods added game folder and a test game in a known to be gentle to play world like Sunset Valley, Riverview, or Twinbrook?
Also, on your existing game in Bridgeport, do you really have 191 resident sims? The service and other homeless NPCs don't really count here, the metric we would be looking for is residents. On City Hall or an in-game computer, NRaas > MC > Demographics > Population > "X" to dismiss the filter and what do you see for the resident totals? Bridgeport unfortunately adds its own brand of instability to the game because of its map flaws, issues with elevators and there being far too many highrise apartment buildings for one world, and the issue with private room markers for the NPCs to hibernate into being on the ground floor in so many places as we've discussed elsewhere. It's not the best world to be using when trying to stabilize an otherwise misbehaving game.
Like others on comparatively modern hardware, I can and have played crowded worlds with overstuffed populations but have to remember to dial down the graphics settings in Game Options and turn StoryProgression down to one of its lowest speeds when doing so or else I'll have lag and resource overrun as well. The difference is that when I do push the game too far and into the Error12 zone, I can easily see RAM usage going into and routinely leveling off at levels that are too high. 2.8 GB should not be too high, as stated or at least this kind of limit does not match the general player experience on a strong enough GPU and other components.
The 4GB patch has not been relevant since before Patch 1.17, when the game became Large Address Aware. That was in 2010, for heaven's sake. And the 20000 RAM usage trick was never effective, what it does is change the game's maximum script heap size from 20 GB where EA put it on purpose to 40 GB or some other value. It always was an urban legend of sorts and it should be undone if it was attempted.
The guide also advises using Simler90's Core Mod, which is not compatible with NRaas mods and renders the game unsupportable by us, as well as the Smoothness Patch 2.x with no clear mention that its MC package component is totally broken. I pretty much stopped reading after that section.
We all have our slightly different breaking points when it comes to hitting the 32-bit imposed RAM barrier, but 2.8 GB of usage during gameplay seems pretty low. I can run up through about 3.5 GB before being in the danger zone, for example, others seem to run into trouble around 3.3 GB or so. What happens is that the save process itself spikes the RAM usage up and down, and just one split-millisecond spike above 3.7 GB, which definitely the hard upper limit for everyone, will cause the game to Error12 or otherwise lose its mind.
The game should work better than you describe on your hardware set. If the RAM usage is really spiking up that high from 2.8 to 3.7 or so just by virtue of trying to save, then that is not normal. How well (or poorly) does it behave short-term on a clean no content or mods added game folder and a test game in a known to be gentle to play world like Sunset Valley, Riverview, or Twinbrook?
Also, on your existing game in Bridgeport, do you really have 191 resident sims? The service and other homeless NPCs don't really count here, the metric we would be looking for is residents. On City Hall or an in-game computer, NRaas > MC > Demographics > Population > "X" to dismiss the filter and what do you see for the resident totals? Bridgeport unfortunately adds its own brand of instability to the game because of its map flaws, issues with elevators and there being far too many highrise apartment buildings for one world, and the issue with private room markers for the NPCs to hibernate into being on the ground floor in so many places as we've discussed elsewhere. It's not the best world to be using when trying to stabilize an otherwise misbehaving game.
Like others on comparatively modern hardware, I can and have played crowded worlds with overstuffed populations but have to remember to dial down the graphics settings in Game Options and turn StoryProgression down to one of its lowest speeds when doing so or else I'll have lag and resource overrun as well. The difference is that when I do push the game too far and into the Error12 zone, I can easily see RAM usage going into and routinely leveling off at levels that are too high. 2.8 GB should not be too high, as stated or at least this kind of limit does not match the general player experience on a strong enough GPU and other components.
Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
It may have been a good way to make the game more accessible to technology at the time, but it was more like a "filler" that ended up causing the most feared error to date. If there is a way to test the game with a RAM limit of 2.8GB, it would be a way to definitively prevent this error.CardinalSims wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 5:42 pmLarge Address Aware allows an application to use up to 4GB, instead of its original limit of 2GB. Regardless of the memory issues the game still has, that patch was still technically an improvement. I don't think hitting the 2GB limit would have fared any better.
Unfortunately, I've already tried this several times, I've even changed game versions.CardinalSims wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 5:42 pmPerhaps time to start with a fresh install of the game, get the graphics card recognised, no custom content, and start performance benchmarking from there?
I've suffered a lot at the hands of this game too, and I've suffered a lot with computers that couldn't handle it, but my current computer is great, of course you have to be careful with the temperature. I don't know if replicating my game conditions on a newer desktop computer would show any changes, I'd have to test it to see. What I meant by the specs not being that relevant, is that my computer is much more than adequate to run games 10 times heavier than this one.CardinalSims wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 5:42 pmAdding on for the reply that appeared while I was rambling: Bridgeport is probably infamous for being the least stable EA world and almost 200 sims is far too many for the engine itself- let alone if they're all walking around with HD default skins and CC hairs and such. And specs are always relevant for a game that is unoptimized as TS3.
From the integrated card, I assume this is a laptop also? I sympathise with the laptop life, as someone who melted the fan cover off three of them from playing this game on them, but I could never go back to it. There is simply not a gaming laptop in the world that can haul this specific game in the long run.
As much as I believe that there have to be certain limits, playing like walking on eggshells is not a very attractive way to playCardinalSims wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 5:42 pmI digress, but I suppose 5 years of playing on the setup and gameplay precautions I have now with zero issues makes me passionate about the assertion that the game is unsalvageable- which comes up here relatively often.
Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
You should check all your mods if they are up to date, redownload all nrass mods, just in case.Thequesh post_id=98974 time=1705794794 user_id=16607 wrote: Unfortunately, I've already tried this several times, I've even changed game versions.
You can not play the same mods with the wrong game version, and patch.
And maybe you have other outdated ones too.
And delete Simler's 90 mod and smoothpatch Mastercontroller package
As the announcement and igazor noted. announcements/topic11969
Do you get any Error logs from Errortrap?
Drag and drop the Scripterror file onto the text reply box here.
Claudy Bookworm, Cat Person, Computer Whiz, Couch Potato, Eco-Friendly, Friendly, Frugal, Genius, Nurturing, Social butterfly, Supernatural fan, Virtuoso in the past, Workaholic, Brooding, No Sense of Humor
Bookworm, Cat Person, Computer Whiz, Couch Potato, Eco-Friendly, Friendly, Frugal, Genius, Nurturing, Social butterfly, Supernatural fan, Virtuoso in the past, Workaholic, Brooding, No Sense of Humor Error Code 12 - Help Discussion
igazor wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 6:01 pmThese guides on Steam do have some useful information, but they also have much that is sketchy (not as helpful) or unnecessary and some things that are just plain incorrect. I'm sorry, but we really don't know what to say to players who come to us and tell us that our mods are broken or incompatible (with what?) because they read it on a Steam guide like that one.
The 4GB patch has not been relevant since before Patch 1.17, when the game became Large Address Aware. That was in 2010, for heaven's sake. And the 20000 RAM usage trick was never effective, what it does is change the game's maximum script heap size from 20 GB where EA put it on purpose to 40 GB or some other value. It always was an urban legend of sorts and it should be undone if it was attempted.
I even apologize for my lack of information on certain issues like this. The author made a compatibility mod for simler90's Gameplay Core Mod with NRAAS mods. Even today on modthesims, this mod is highly recommended, as are the separate cool files. In my tests the game is unplayable, I had no idea about Smoothness Patch 2 either.igazor wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 6:01 pmThe guide also advises using Simler90's Core Mod, which is not compatible with NRaas mods and renders the game unsupportable by us, as well as the Smoothness Patch 2.x with no clear mention that its MC package component is totally broken. I pretty much stopped reading after that section.
I'm always monitoring the game through the task manager, I don't know if there is any other program that can give me more details about the RAM spikes, but I don't believe the game is going from 2.8gb to 3.7gb, I observed the peaks and troughs in RAM usage, even when saving, they fluctuate by around 100mb or 200mb but never fluctuate above 500mb or 1gb. From what I understand, when the game reaches 3.7gb it is the critical point and the game closes independently, my game still continues to run above 3.0gb, I have already managed to observe up to 3.3gb, however in these numbers the code 12 error is 100% sure it will appear when saving. Can you save the game with these numbers?igazor wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 6:01 pmWe all have our slightly different breaking points when it comes to hitting the 32-bit imposed RAM barrier, but 2,8 GB of usage during gameplay seems pretty low. I can run up through about 3.5 GB before being in the danger zone, for example, others seem to run into trouble around 3.3 GB or so. What happens is that the save process itself spikes the RAM usage up and down, and just one split-millisecond spike above 3.7 GB, which definitely the hard upper limit for everyone, will cause the game to Error12 or otherwise lose its mind.
The game should work better than you describe on your hardware set. If the RAM usage is really spiking up that high from 2.8 to 3.7 or so just by virtue of tying to save, then that is not normal. How well (or poorly) does it behave short-term on a clean no content or mods added game folder and a test game in a known to be gentle to play world like Sunset Valley, Riverview, or Twinbrook?
The value I mentioned is for the total number of sims, not just residents, but all sims, services, special sims, homeless sims, as I said the city is new, it has standard residents and my 5 core families that I mentioned.igazor wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 6:01 pmAlso, on your existing game in Bridgeport, do you really have 191 resident sims? The service and other homeless NPCs don't really count here, the metric we would be looking for is residents. On City Hall or an in-game computer, NRaas > MC > Demographics > Population > "X" to dismiss the filter and what do you see for the resident totals? Bridgeport unfortunately adds its own brand of instability to the game because of its map flaws, issues with elevators and there being far too many highrise apartment buildings for one world, and the issue with private room markers for the NPCs to hibernate into being on the ground floor in so many places as we've discussed elsewhere. It's not the best world to be using when trying to stabilize an otherwise misbehaving game.
Your safe zone is really very different from mine, if I see that the game is already using more than 3.0 GB I already know that I won't be able to save, it's disappointing and tiring to keep fighting with this error, but I'll do other tests with the information you provide. One of the things I want to try is removing the SmoothPatch. I would like to know, what are your thoughts on "Battery_Utility"?igazor wrote: ↑January 20th, 2024, 6:01 pmLike others on comparatively modern hardware, I can and have played crowded worlds with overstuffed populations but have to remember to dial down the graphics settings in Game Options and turn StoryProgression down to one of its lowest speeds when doing so or else I'll have lag and resource overrun as well. The difference is that when I do push the game too far and into the Error12 zone, I can easily see RAM usage going into and routinely leveling off at levels that are too high. 2.8 GB should not be too high, as stated or at least this kind of limit does not match the general player experience on a strong enough GPU and other components.