Feeback: Overwatch rabbithole fixes

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babele44
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Feeback: Overwatch rabbithole fixes

Post by babele44 » September 2nd, 2016, 10:07 am

I know I am a bit late for that but I had taken a longer break first and then played a world that didn't have any combo rabbitholes. The world I am playing now does have them and I have already sunk some 30 Sims weeks into it.
As far as I can see the various rabbithole fixes work extremely well, especially the fix for townies not visiting them. My diner/grocer is now easily the most popular spot in town and the various bars will probably have to close soon due to running out of business :)
However, I have a question with regard to this. Does this fix also include something that pushes townies to them or makes visiting them more attractive? Because I am increasingly noticing Sims who miss work and the pattern that I see is that these were either in the process of visiting a rabbithole or having visited one shortly before their call to go to work kicks in. That is the call they receive without any story progression mode on.
It is hard to describe what I mean, I know, but it seems that they are practically addicted to visiting these rabbitholes and drop anything else that meta-autonomy might have thrown at them. It is entirely possible still that this had always been the case and I just had never paid too much attention to it, but in order to see whether the fix worked I began to notice it.
The visit pattern that I've seen goes roughly like this: Go Shopping/Attend Show/Eat Out sends them there; once they've finished they either wait outside or sit down on a bench or chair if these are on the lot and then leave for home. If the call for work happens at any one of these stages they will change into their work uniform, leave the lot, drive to their work place but fail to enter the lot and work rabbithole (they do have a route fail bubble then), turn around and go home again and stay at home for the rest of the day. Even when I give them the command to go to work with either MasterController or by making them active they will either fail that, too, or follow it after they have completed the full action cycle (visit rabbithole-sit down/wait outside-go home). It is as if this action cycle is so compelling that they cannot enter their work place until it has been completed.

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igazor
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Post by igazor » September 2nd, 2016, 1:41 pm

I've had v122 in for a very long time as it was in beta testing for so long and haven't detected this pattern at all. I do get all the annoying notifications in the world from SP when a sim is missing work/school otherwise, though those are not everyday occurrences and often they really are route-blocked somehow or they were just running a bit late that day and are already working by the time I catch up with them.

If this issue is entirely reproducible on your end, might the next thing to try be to replace OW with a version slightly older than v122 and run your game on it as a test to see if the behavior persists?

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Post by babele44 » September 2nd, 2016, 5:13 pm

I had the same game run for 3 consecutive days, this time with Overwatch v121. Although it might very well be that the game was uncooperative but during that time no Sims missed their work and I did have the impression that general population behaviour was different.
But let me expand my first observations first. While looking for the culprits who I have found before as skipping work regularly in order to tag them, I noticed that what I described above mainly affected Sims who do not work the usual 9 to 5 shifts but work in careers that start later - Culinary, Sports, Criminal, Music. With OW 121 they hardly left the house in the time before their shift to go shopping or attending a show, while with OW 122 they left their homes sometimes up to three times before they were due for work. I already joked about my Sim's neighbour that she seems to be a shopoholic, but with v121 they only left for work and that was it. 121 turned her into a hermit.
I don't mind that they go out more often, of course, the only thing that made me a bit suspicious was their weird ways they miss work and how unusually lively the rabbithole lots are now. I forgot to mention in my first post that there are also occurrences that they enter their workplace and leave it again immediately, like go in through one door and then leave through the other. This is definitely unusual, especially as they keep their work outfit on (I have Awesome, which changes them into Everyday once their shift is finished). So, it does seem that they simply drop their "Work Until End Of Shift" order.
So, in essence I noticed four missing work behaviours:
(1) Visit a rabbithole, go through the visit routines. If this happens during the alarm to go to work they forget about it and go home and stay there
(2) Visit a rabbithole, go through the visit routine, receive the alarm for work, change into their uniform, leave the lot for work but drop that before they reach the rabbithole and stand on the lot border, scratching their head
(3) Visit a rabbithole, go through the visit routine, receive the alarm for work, change into their uniform, leave the lot for work but drop that even before they reach the rabbithole turn around and go home
(4) Visit a rabbithole, go through the visit routine, receive the alarm for work, change into their uniform, leave the lot for work enter their workplace and exit it immediately after and go home.

My suspicion is that the visit rabbithole routine is conflicting with the push/alarm to go to work and I began to wonder whether OW made the former stronger, because thanks to my shopoholic neighbour I noticed that she always missed work when her shopping spree began shortly before her shift started. The only thing I cannot conclusively say yet is whether this was always the case or whether OW did indeed made some changes to that. That's why I asked.

The visit sequence of events I mentioned in my first posts seems to be the default routine. Sims visit the lot, enter the rabbithole and then either leave immediately or sit down if there are some seats or interact with Sims they know. The difference is that this routine appears to be uninterruptable now.

I gather that this should have increased the notices for users of SP for Sims missing work, but as you don't recall any, I'm probably really too late, now that testing has ceased, to really determine whether there is an issue or not.

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Post by igazor » September 2nd, 2016, 5:58 pm

Well, too late for the full release of v122 of course but not too late for the coders to explain what's going on here with those alarms and possibly revisit. I don't watch all of my inactives maybe as closely as I should, there's just too many of them in most of my worlds, but it sure seems like plenty of them would be missing work on my end if this pattern held up for me. Certainly many of them have afternoon and evening jobs in at least two of the worlds I have in play, featuring yes Athletic, Culinary, and Music among others. But it could also be that what's really happening is that SP keeps pushing them back to work before I even notice. It is my sense that SP's Push:Allow to Work is a pretty strong and recurring one. It's entirely possible that no one tested OW v122 without SP's progression in play or did so but didn't make the connection to what you are now observing.

Also, did it ever occur to you that your inactives are now finally rebelling against your disallowing them access to Corn Squeezins as I predicted they would? (The others reading this can ignore this paragraph if they don't get the inside joke.)

I'm happy to test this out in one of my ongoing worlds without SP progression (ugh) to see if I get the same or similar results, but let's see what icarus and Chain have to say first. Maybe something simple can be readjusted here. :)

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Post by babele44 » September 2nd, 2016, 7:06 pm

"Also, did it ever occur to you that your inactives are now finally rebelling against your disallowing them access to Corn Squeezins as I predicted they would? (The others reading this can ignore this paragraph if they don't get the inside joke.)"

Now that you mention it I recall that my shopoholic neighbour advanced in her culinary career track soon after I declared a prohibition on any drinks made with illicit vegetables. It seems to have put her off going to the grocer's more than once a day. So, maybe my ban on drinkable vegetables did actually solve a drug problem that was more widespread in Dragon Valley than I thought and was the real reason for their abominable work ethic.

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Post by igazor » September 2nd, 2016, 7:24 pm

LOL, I would argue back if I had the energy (which I don't right now) and if I thought for a moment that there would be any value or taste to dealcoholized Bourbon. Bleh.

Instead, I'll page icarus into this thread. He doesn't always notice such discussions that aren't on the main Chatterbox board when he passes through. :)

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Post by icarus_allsorts » September 3rd, 2016, 12:29 am

Concerning the combo rabbithole "fixes" in OW, at least the ones I implemented, the mod doesn't explicitly push sims to visit them, all it does is make sims aware of the contained rabbitholes existences. By default all they see is the meta autonomy advertisements projected by the combo building itself, which does not attract inactive sims to visit them, as opposed to the individual rabbitholes housed in the building.

I would think that the seemingly increased number of sims being pushed to a comborabbithole with OW in is simply caused by different sets of sims being pushed to the individual rabbitholes inside the combo one arriving at the same lot. If you replaced the combo diner and grocery with separate diner and grocery rabbitholes put on the same lot, my guess is that you'd see the same large number of sims autonomously visiting the lot itself.

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Post by icarus_allsorts » September 3rd, 2016, 12:36 am

As for whether visiting rabbitholes is now somehow prioritized over or outright blocking sims from going to work being caused by OW or any of the NRaas mods, I can't say for sure but it seems rather doubtful to me since as far as I know the interaction to go to work is almost always pushed at a high priority on sims. It could just be an existing quirk in the game one wouldn't notice without a mod that notifies you about sims missing work.

That and I always assumed that a majority of players would rather sims go to clubs or parks as opposed to disappearing in to rabbitholes all the time so would use tuning mods to block autonomous visits to rabbitholes and thus never noticed this

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Post by babele44 » September 3rd, 2016, 3:42 am

Okay, thanks for the clarification. As I said already, one of my suspicions was indeed that I was only now simply observing something that was there to begin with but to which I had never paid too much attention before and as I don't use any mod that notifies me of Sims missing work I thought I'd rather ask here first before I continued camping in front of the grocer's just to find out whether there was a potential issue or not.

BTW, I was the one who asked for this fix that made inactives visit the combo holes autonomously. But as it was such a long time ago I cannot remember what I promised as a gesture of gratefulness. I hope it wasn't my firstborn, because I still don't have one and you'd probably have to wait quite a bit for such a thing to happen. Would it be enough if I lighted a candle in the cathedral of my thankful heart?

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